deriving the math of ecosquared and more

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Friday 10th January, 10pm GMT, 5pm EDT, 2pm PDT

An experimental series of ha-ha’s exploring the mathematics behind the ha-ha’s, facilitated by David Pinto and Joe Corneli.

  • going over MTTP — money-time-trust-protocol
  • going over EDP — equal-distribution-protocol
  • going over SEA — the subjective-enumeration algorithm
  • going over FTP — financial-trust-protocol
  • emergent phenomena like horizontal and vertical equity cycles, give-it-forwards with MTTP
  • the experimental quality of FTP
  • how we hack money by decoupling number-thing and replace it with number-time
  • innovative mathematical notation to capture numbers of people, specifically 1^n
  • ethical issues in exploring this kind of math
  • re-introducing ‘imperial’ or analogue money, or quanta
  • deriving equivalences of psycho-social compression demonstrated by the ha-ha’s
  • using the math to fund our exploration, to create socially useful derivatives such as ‘fluid’ companies

We may also go deeper into the methodology that enables this way of thinking and operating, namely the application of buddhist methodology to mathematics and to psycho-social dynamics.


  • estimate the feasibility of deriving the fractal dimension of MTTP
  • multi-agent modelling genus one as spacial metaphor
  • innovating mathematical notation to capture simultaneity of different states or decision, eg 0 and 1
  • innovating mathematical notation to deal with analogue or quanta or quality
  • deriving a cohesive mathematical description of the psychosocial dynamic of people, time and number
  • evolve a reflexive mathematics which is itself fractal, with potential application to (ecological) economics, emergent language machines

Why join this ha-ha?

Language can only go so far. Not only are we modelling the self-similar financial protocols that may derive a new economic entity, but we are starting to make progress into mathematising psycho-social dynamics, an equivalent step to Newton’s mathematisation of the physics world. This is a call to anyone who may be interested and is not restricted to mathematicians — in fact, because of the level of innovation involved, professional mathematicians may be slow in the pick up. We are hacking mathematics at a very simple level, and if you have ever had problems at school regarding the learning of algebra, operations or even counting, then you may find the application of number to human engagement comes naturally. Invitation is particularly open to those with a high intra-personal or inter-personal intelligence.

How does the ha-ha work?

  • Hit the Contribute button: Pledge $10.00 which will go into the fund for exploring this mathematics. You don’t have to, it is free. The money is part of an experiment in sustainability. It will becomes clear in the video.
  • On Friday 10th January return here to watch the live happening-hangout right here on this page – the live feed video will replace the image above.
  • We will be using a gdoc to go through a set of provocative math innovations and collectively edit our questions and answers, and whatever thoughts which may occur to us in the accompanying chat.
  • Participants may be invited onto the Happening-Hangout to share their thinking, so circle David Pinto on Google+.
  • We will be making a decision about how best to compress the money-time-trust we have contributed for the hour, to further the mathematical exploration in subsequent ha-ha’s in this series.

Who is David Pinto?

I was originally unconditionally accepted to study pure mathematics at Oxford but instead decided to expand my horizons and study Social Anthropology. I have been conducting immersed social experiments over two decades in educational systems and with entrepreneurs. I am a kind of post-modern journeyman. In 2008 I quit work and conducted a first exploration of the relationship between buddhism and mathematics, which I playfully named XQ. I developed what is currently termed MTTP in the antagonistic space of non-belief with friends and colleagues from December 2012, and failed to translate it either into a form of maths or a language that enable people to see what it means. While working with a team of entrepreneurs over Autumn-Winter 2013, we derived FTP, a non-directed formulation of MTTP, and one which may provide more traction in our current culture. I have written a book called GIFT over 2013 which is a fictional narrative based on the financial protocols.

This is an invitation to explore a reflexive math, using protocols derived from it.

Who is Joe Corneli?

When I was 16-17, I took courses on Cultural and Ecological anthropology from Luther P. Gerlach at the University of Minnesota.  I was also taking an Honor’s Engineering Calculus sequence at the same time, working hard to get “B’s”.  It occurred to me that mathematics has an interesting role in our culture — almost akin to magic in other cultures, as a source of “truth.”  I decided that rather than continuing in anthropology per se, I would study mathematics in a (not-so) typical 4-year college, New College of Florida — but study it from the point of view of an anthropologist or participant observer.

By the end of my four-year programme, I had learned a lot of mathematics and a little bit of philosophy — and I had almost forgotten about these early aspirations, as I had grown fond of mathematical studies and especially mathematical research in its own right.  I then enrolled in a Ph. D. programme in mathematics at the University of Texas.

Here, my anthropological way of thinking quickly came back to the fore — mostly because the classes were hard, but also because I found them emotionally tedious in ways that my courses at New College had not been.  Perhaps I had been spoiled by my early exposure to mathematics research.  I felt as though I was the only person who asked questions in class, and that the instructors viewed my questions as a sign of stupidity.  The immediate result was that I stopped going to classes or office hours, resolving to prepare myself for the prelim exams on my own.  But, thinking in an anthropological way, also I wondered about the purpose of the exams and courses.  I wanted to get to the research frontier as quickly and efficiently as possible, and that meant passing the exams as quickly and efficiently as possible.  Going to class might have been the most efficient way available but it seemed like little thought had gone into making it an optimal experience.  There had to be a better way.

Austin has a strong history in Artificial Intelligence and Computer Mathematics, and somehow, between learning more about these topics and staying up late at night reading Jean Baudrillard’s “Simulacra and Simulation”, I decided that the best thing to do would be to write a computer program that would coach me through the exams.  Or better yet, that would take the exams itself.

Well, needless to say, this did not happen, but it did solidify my vision of myself as a computationally-focused anthropologist of mathematics.  I spent the next 6 years back in Minneapolis, outside of academia, working with (a peer produced mathematics website) and doing some of my own AI-inspired programming, which is described on During this time, I had a very minimal job that paid the bills, and gave me lots of free time to work on this stuff, read, attend a Writers Workshop, and so on.

Ultimately I got frustrated with my lack of concrete progress as an independent scholar, and applied to a new PhD programme at The Open University, UK.  I was accepted, and given a lot of latitude to define my own projects and find my own collaborators.  This model of postgraduate education seems to have worked much better for me than the American version.  I worked with Michael Kohlhase and his group to develop a new software system that I used to rebuild and modernize the PlanetMath website, focusing on support for students.  I also teamed up with Howard Rheingold and about 30 others to build, where we explore many of the practical dimensions of online (and offline) peer learning.  I recently successfully defended my thesis, “Peer Produced Peer Learning: A mathematics case study”.

I am now employed as a Researcher in Computational Creativity, at Goldsmiths College (University of London), where I’m working to understand and model social aspects of creativity in mathematics and other fields, and to model “creative progress”.   I hope to use this interdisciplinary position as an opportunity to expand on the things I learned in my PhD research, and combine it with my earlier interests in AI and hypertext.

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